WEBVTT Kind: captions; language: en-us NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:00:35.900 --> 00:00:38.600 okay NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:00:44.300 --> 00:00:47.000 so NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:00:55.500 --> 00:01:04.900 all right I just wanted to check with you or I yeah I wanted to say one more thing about the deep 00:01:04.900 --> 00:01:12.100 reading thing is that it's a very good chance I think for everyone to come together and have a real 00:01:12.100 --> 00:01:16.150 go at Seth Holme1s whose book fresh fruit broken bodies NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:01:16.150 --> 00:01:25.700 it is quite engaging monograph I don't know who started reading that book? yeah quite a few and then 00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:32.400 you'll get far into it if you take it with you on Thursday those of you who haven't this is your 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:43.200 chance to just sit down and get those pages flying,that is the whole point so hope to see you there. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 66% (MEDIUM) 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.400 relations of dependence NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:01:49.500 --> 00:01:51.900 so NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:01:52.300 --> 00:01:57.250 just checking if everyone is with us NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:01:57.250 --> 00:02:01.800 18 participants perfect NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:02:03.100 --> 00:02:06.200 so anthropology is the NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:10.800 the study of the common Sense and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:02:12.100 --> 00:02:24.300 James Ferguson is writing an essay about dependence and he's kind of chipping away at the Western 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:30.200 taken-for-granted liberal common-sense idea about dependence NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:02:31.500 --> 00:02:38.700 this is what he says we westerners this is a concept that we westerners take for granted that we're 00:02:38.700 --> 00:02:49.200 scared of that we create policies to avoid but that we actually should not we should think 00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:50.750 differently about NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:02:50.750 --> 00:02:52.900 because NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:07.100 have any of you read or heard about a dolls house et dukkehjem by Henrik Ibsen I'm sure you read it you 00:03:07.100 --> 00:03:16.500 were forced to read it even in school at least I was forced to read it, and it's very famous for its 00:03:16.500 --> 00:03:18.850 last scene right where Nora NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:03:18.850 --> 00:03:34.400 walks out on Helmer and like slams the door in his face he's been his paternalistic big man type of 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:46.000 husband who underscores and undermines her independence all the time by treating her as someone as a 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.750 child and the play is about how she NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:03:48.750 --> 00:03:59.200 kind of wakes up from that slumber of dependence and in the final scene says to this guy we're not 00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:09.000 going to be together anymore I'm leaving goodbye slams the door audience applauds great we 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:18.799 need Independence we all want to be independent, it's something that rhymes really well with our NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:04:18.799 --> 00:04:29.550 common sense and Ferguson would say our Western liberal common sense this emancipatory liberal mind 00:04:29.550 --> 00:04:34.350 because freedom is independence isn't it? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:04:34.350 --> 00:04:38.300 not so fast says Ferguson. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:04:40.700 --> 00:04:45.299 He makes an argument about NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:04:45.299 --> 00:04:55.549 Southern Africa but at the same time about the rest of the world it's a classic example again of how 00:04:55.549 --> 00:05:04.300 there's this strange thing out there in the world that the Anthropologist tries to make familiar in 00:05:04.300 --> 00:05:15.000 the process of familiarising the strange what we think as familiar becomes more strange. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (HØY) 00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:24.000 We'll see how that happens. As I said if he writes explicitly against what he calls liberal 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.600 common sense NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:35.400 that saying that freedom is the same as Independence and reverse that dependence must mean unfreedom NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (HØY) 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:49.800 when I was doing my master's fieldwork in 2012 in Lesotho in southern Africa the area that Ferguson 00:05:49.800 --> 00:06:00.100 writes about I worked as an aid worker I worked for the 00:06:00.100 --> 00:06:06.550 Red Cross and I do so many strange things that happen and I thought that I know I must go back NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:06:06.550 --> 00:06:12.799 Here for my masters and try to understand these middlemen these intermediaries in development Aid 00:06:12.799 --> 00:06:18.700 how they living how they work and how they're practicing their role as intermediaries between donors in 00:06:18.700 --> 00:06:23.500 the north and kind of target groups in the South what I was the creativity and what are the 00:06:23.500 --> 00:06:30.800 contradictions that they live with and I went and I tried to embed myself in these eight 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:36.000 NGOs in Massaro the capital of Lesotho and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:06:37.400 --> 00:06:43.300 I went around with a nice little letter from the from the Department of Social anthropology the 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:48.000 University of Oslo Norway with stamps and signatures saying that I was a good student and maybe 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:55.200 could I stay in your NGO and do my study people didn't really understand what that meant least of 00:06:55.200 --> 00:07:03.700 all me but I did that I walked around in the neighborhood and distributed these 00:07:03.700 --> 00:07:07.150 things and was hoping that someone would pick me up and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 67% (MEDIUM) 00:07:07.150 --> 00:07:15.800 this organisation said hey you want to come study with us or like do your study here you 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:24.100 can be here we don't it's fine, and they gave me a desk at the headquarters. It was called the 00:07:24.100 --> 00:07:28.900 research desk and I was just sitting there and paying attention to everything was going on and 00:07:28.900 --> 00:07:34.900 getting to know these people and becoming their friends and going out so it has a projects on all 00:07:34.900 --> 00:07:37.250 the rest of it stuff that anthropologist NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (HØY) 00:07:37.250 --> 00:07:41.800 do but the thing is that I walked I was then NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:54.950 In 2012 I was 24 years old I was walking this neighbourhood and I was living outside town 00:07:54.950 --> 00:08:01.900 I took the bus in every day and I was walking this neighbourhood one day and old man came up to me okay 00:08:01.900 --> 00:08:07.800 maybe he was 60 and he came up to me and he said NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (HØY) 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:15.200 I felt like a young like rookie I didn't know anything but he walked up to me and said NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:08:16.200 --> 00:08:18.600 "can I work for you?" NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:24.800 I'll do anything I'll trim you garden I'll take your kids I didn't have any kids I'll take your kids 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:29.900 to school I'll cook dinner boss he called me boss NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:08:29.900 --> 00:08:35.500 let me help you, employ me, exploit me. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:08:35.900 --> 00:08:50.500 Uncomfortable for a white liberal blue fresh-faced and anthropology student from the egalitarian Social 00:08:50.500 --> 00:09:00.100 democratic country of Norway to encounter such Declaration of dependence can I become can you be my 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:07.450 Patron can I be your client was basically what he was saying. Throughout my stay in Lesotho NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:09:07.450 --> 00:09:14.200 This thing manifested itself in different ways this is the 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:20.000 most kind of explicit old man walking out to me a young white guy saying can I be your dependent can 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:26.650 you employment but in all other kinds of ways it there was a same thing that I discovered NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:09:26.650 --> 00:09:28.800 and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:09:32.300 --> 00:09:39.000 and inside these NGOs there was this rhetoric about how people how these organizations who were 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:45.050 supposed to be sustainable they're supposed to you know make their own money in the end 00:09:45.050 --> 00:09:51.150 because they're not supposed to be dependent on donor aid and what I discovered was that these are 00:09:51.150 --> 00:09:57.900 NGO workers they really understood that you know. You're not supposed to do ependence 00:09:57.900 --> 00:10:02.550 we're supposed to be independent sustainable let's pretend that's all pretend to do that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:10:02.550 --> 00:10:09.300 of course and so they would kind of you know proudly write in the reports that we have a 00:10:09.300 --> 00:10:15.300 sustainability strategy and the donors we're not receiving you are partner 00:10:15.300 --> 00:10:22.000 you are not a donor we are partners and we are not receiving long-term funds but what the hell were 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:27.400 they going to do they were living there were running an NGO in Lesotho one of the poorest 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:31.550 countries in the world there's no money there's almost no resources NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:10:31.550 --> 00:10:38.750 and then you're supposed to become sustainable and independent as an NGO of course they wanted 00:10:38.750 --> 00:10:44.800 A dependency relation with the donor in the north just as that old man wanted the dependency relation 00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:50.950 with me young relatively rich person from the north NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:10:50.950 --> 00:11:01.400 but this did not fit well with my taken for granted idea of what it meant to be valuable what it 00:11:01.400 --> 00:11:07.900 meant to be free and it didn't sit well in on the organizational level with how organizations 00:11:07.900 --> 00:11:17.000 supposed to present themselves this is what Ferguson is writing about. People doing uncomfortable 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:21.150 things to the Western eye claiming and apparently seeking out NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 00:11:21.150 --> 00:11:23.300 Relations of dependence NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:11:23.900 --> 00:11:31.800 and that on one hand a kind of a cultural component okay NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:36.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (HØY) 00:11:36.300 --> 00:11:44.900 Ferguson has been critiqued little bit for that in is text that it's kind of a 00:11:44.900 --> 00:11:50.900 culturalist explanation but you know these people in southern Africa there's just they just are 00:11:50.900 --> 00:11:55.800 different their culture is just different they like to be people through other people they didn't 00:11:55.800 --> 00:12:03.099 they are not like us there's an element of that maybe in Ferguson's argument and 00:1 2:03.099 --> 00:12:06.600 it opens with historical case of NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:17.650 the ?Guni? state and how people how in ?Guni? taking refugees sought out their own conquerors and 00:12:17.650 --> 00:12:27.150 voluntarily entered into slave like relations it's a hint of culturally stagnation in this 00:12:27.150 --> 00:12:35.050 which kind of can be critiqued they can be depended whatever but there's also a contemporary NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:12:35.050 --> 00:12:45.300 kind of hardcore political-economic setting, a context and era of mass unemployment in southern 00:12:45.300 --> 00:12:46.599 Africa. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:12:46.599 --> 00:12:59.400 This I cannot stress enough is that the key kind of background for what he's writing about okay NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:13:03.100 --> 00:13:09.250 so a friend of mine who saw this lecture she saw the consumption lecture she said 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:16.600 it's very nice lecture but it was also kind of entertaining to see how you always walked around 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:22.400 looking for your papers dropping a paper kind of messing up your papers so this is my part of the 00:13:22.400 --> 00:13:26.000 performance okay this is the last paper NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:13:28.900 --> 00:13:37.000 this is de facto 40 percent wage labor and unemployment in South Africa he writes about 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:44.450 It as labor surplus it sounds kind of nice there's the surplus but there's massive unemployment okay 00:13:44.450 --> 00:13:52.300 there's been jobless growth in southern Africa for decades same as happened in India Brazil many 00:13:52.300 --> 00:13:58.150 kind of quote unquote developing countries or recent industrialised countries NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:13:58.150 --> 00:14:07.099 experience the same thing jobless growth booming economy, BNP is growing but no jobs are following. 00:14:07.099 --> 00:14:16.400 Partly due to optimalisaiton of work tasks and financial Capital won't go into that but this is 00:14:16.400 --> 00:14:25.200 the this is the context 40% defacto wage labor and unemployment so for these people NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:32.300 wage labor can no longer serve as the main basis for social membership in the society in another 00:14:32.300 --> 00:14:37.900 text I think of Ferguson has a book that's called give a man a fish reflection on the New Politics 00:14:37.900 --> 00:14:46.400 of distribution and he writes there he quotes this South African Economist saying that I think 00:14:46.400 --> 00:14:52.200 something like two billion people to million South Africans could die and it would not cause a 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.450 ripple on this Johannesburg Stock Exchange NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 44% (LAV) 00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:55.300 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (HØY) 00:14:55.300 --> 00:15:04.500 they are detached from the formal registers of the economy and they will not be employed 00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:11.500 this is a dream this is pipe dream this is not going to happen for any foreseeable future millions 00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:17.350 of people in the society will never be engaged with never be swept up or integrated embedded in the 00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:24.950 formal labor market I also remember this from when I did my NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:32.800 Master's research in this organization in Lesotho once we put out a job advert for 00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:40.800 a receptionist or some kind of administrative role small thing we're like 700 applicants or 00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:47.300 something you could walk the streets of Masseria and you saw young men all the time walking with 00:15:47.300 --> 00:15:54.849 their little duffle bags or whatever like bags with all their papers NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:15:54.849 --> 00:16:02.000 looking for jobs handing out jobs applications knocking on doors NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:07.000 there are almost no jobs to go around NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.100 so what happens then NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:16:16.800 --> 00:16:26.300 claims of belonging via personalistic dependents are taking on a new urgency in a world where work 00:16:26.300 --> 00:16:29.900 membership is simply no longer available NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:16:31.400 --> 00:16:33.900 so NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:16:34.900 --> 00:16:39.099 when you don't have a job to rely on NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:16:39.099 --> 00:16:47.300 what do you do? you you try to find people that you can rely on NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:16:50.800 --> 00:16:57.150 because at the end of the day the idea of the completely autonomous NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:16:57.150 --> 00:17:10.000 person self-contained independent fully independent individual is at the end of the day an illusion NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (HØY) 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:19.400 I think this is hundred percent true okay because I want you to kind of consider the possibility 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:26.800 that dependence is a constant, dependence is something that's always there. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:30.800 think about NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:35.400 the COVID crisis NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:47.350 let's just say picture stockbroker living in Aker Brygge with a yacht NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:17:47.350 --> 00:17:55.900 lots of money I just met a friend actually who had been there and was on one of these boats he told me 00:17:55.900 --> 00:18:04.400 that they exist it's an exotic incredible world where they do all kinds of 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:12.600 they snort cocaine and go to fancy restaurants and as we've seen I think in this series 'Exit' has 00:18:12.600 --> 00:18:17.500 any of you watch this Exit series? these are and and remember the Zaloom Traders also NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (HØY) 00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:29.100 kind of fiercely independent stock traders and yet they are also of course as human beings anywhere 00:18:29.100 --> 00:18:31.000 at any time NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 72% (MEDIUM) 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:38.600 equally dependent on invisible structures because NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:53.300 what happened during COVID-19 was interesting all of a sudden we realise that we are dependent on things 00:18:53.300 --> 00:19:01.400 that we didn't really think about before. George's is involved in a project that studies ports and 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:11.550 containership trade and what happened when the container ship trade slowed down and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:19:11.550 --> 00:19:21.500 people couldn't go to the ports in China or the assembly workers in Chinese factories couldn't 00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:28.200 produce as much because of COVID suddenly you saw there was an effect over 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:29.350 here NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:19:29.350 --> 00:19:37.949 we didn't let's just say went even further we didn't there was no more production of iPads or Macs NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 76% (HØY) 00:19:37.949 --> 00:19:46.000 the stuff in Ikea I didn't come through because there's a slowdown in the global container 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:55.800 trade which is happening right now pieces for new yachts were not produced they weren't reaching the 00:19:55.800 --> 00:19:57.250 shores NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:19:57.250 --> 00:20:07.300 so suddenly you realize that well okay I'm dependent on these people and these these relationships 00:20:07.300 --> 00:20:12.500 that stretch all the way through the seas to China NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.450 because when they stopped NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:20:15.450 --> 00:20:25.900 it had an effect here or if all the suddenly we realise that we all kind of depended somehow on 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:34.800 grocery store workers who put the things in the stores for us when everyone went crazy and 00:20:34.800 --> 00:20:37.700 thought there would be no toilet paper NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:20:37.800 --> 00:20:45.600 we depend on all kinds of things all the time the question is NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:20:45.800 --> 00:20:54.300 what of those dependency relations are made visible or not or made invisible and what are the 00:20:54.300 --> 00:21:02.100 depends relations that are recognised and what are the dependencies that are overlooked NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:21:02.900 --> 00:21:06.600 and so NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:18.400 if dependency is is a constant then you could say that wage labor that was in the that's in 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:25.300 Decline and what Ferguson is writing about was just one form of dependence so that that does not 00:21:25.300 --> 00:21:35.500 kind of no longer being offered that's no longer an option so people seek other kinds of relations NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:45.000 personal relations they are seeking to become taking care of through attaching themselves to 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:47.750 anthropology students from Norway NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:21:47.750 --> 00:21:56.500 latching onto whatever we could find maybe the something good will come out of it or attaching 00:21:56.500 --> 00:22:05.700 themselves to donor organisations in the north giving them whatever they need to hear about our kind 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:11.900 of proud independence in order to maintain and sustain and keep that repeat dependency relation 00:22:11.900 --> 00:22:13.300 going. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:22:14.300 --> 00:22:17.300 does that make sense? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:22:20.800 --> 00:22:26.500 So there's a new urgency in the world where workmanship is not simply no longer available says 00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:35.400 Ferguson and this is the case in many places across the world most acutely in Southern Africa NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:45.850 and so what then of social policy what should we do what should we kind of how should we organise 00:22:45.850 --> 00:22:50.500 our societies differently based on this insight? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:22:52.900 --> 00:23:03.200 as I said dependency is kind of the boogeyman of development aid it's the Boogeyman 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:09.100 in the mind of people who critique the welfare state right to be a NAVer to be someone who 00:23:09.100 --> 00:23:18.100 works on goes and receives a welfare check is very stigmatised but NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:21.500 Ferguson argues that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (HØY) 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:27.850 The oint if dependency relations is constant is not NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:23:27.850 --> 00:23:36.600 for social policy to eliminate dependence but it is to construct desirable forms of it not in other 00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:42.450 words to end dependence but rather create beneficial forms of dependence NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:48.800 now I wonder if we could try and figure out what that is and what that could be. What are the 00:23:48.800 --> 00:23:53.950 beneficial forms of dependence that we could create NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 64% (MEDIUM) 00:23:53.950 --> 00:24:03.000 Is there a society where wage labor is declining and there are no jobs NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:12.900 or here where jobs are quite you know accessible still but what could be the 00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:21.100 beneficial kind of dependence do you think? Any ideas? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:24:21.100 --> 00:24:28.400 or do you want to take let's just take 20 seconds to think of like good forms of dependence 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:35.900 between you. Talk to the person sitting next to you or have an internal monologue and I'll ask for 00:24:35.900 --> 00:24:38.700 some hands in 20 seconds, go. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.100 all right NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:25:51.300 --> 00:25:53.600 let's NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:25:54.100 --> 00:25:57.700 let's open up the discussion NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:26:00.300 --> 00:26:05.700 let's open up the discussion we have 20 minutes we can do the discussion and at the end we're also 00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:09.200 going to talk a little bit about the exams but first NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:26:10.800 --> 00:26:17.300 beneficial forms of dependence what did you think? I'm very curious NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:26:17.300 --> 00:26:25.400 friendship? yeah absolutely what would be an example of that? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:36.600 yeah NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:26:36.600 --> 00:26:39.000 hmm NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:47.300 so in that sense you're not you know going around saying oh my God you're dependent on me you have 00:26:47.300 --> 00:26:54.200 to become independent because saying that would basically say let's not be friends almost NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:58.800 yeah hmm NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 68% (MEDIUM) 00:26:58.800 --> 00:27:04.900 that's a no that's a kind of a nice the kind of form of dependence because it's also very horizontal 00:27:04.900 --> 00:27:11.700 no it's not because the person is talking about vertical dependency relationships friendship 00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:16.200 is a horizontal one. Others yeah? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:38.000 Where does the state come in? There's the state NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:27:45.500 --> 00:27:55.300 definitely so without the state you would not be here basically, without the Norwegian welfare 00:27:55.300 --> 00:27:58.700 state you would not be sitting here likely. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:10.500 the Norwegian welfare state is paying my salary and it's paying for this building, this technology, so 00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:17.000 and you are not paying too much at least you know you're paying your rent and so on but you know 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:22.400 paying anything to study so in that sense you're all right now depending on the state and 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:29.650 that is we could say beneficial form of dependence even a hierarchical one rather NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:28:29.650 --> 00:28:36.100 than the Friendship this hierarchical relations dependency relation. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:10.300 so what do they prefer what service do they offer or what kind of things do people get when they 00:29:10.300 --> 00:29:11.800 enter in? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:29:36.700 --> 00:29:39.100 hmm NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 61% (MEDIUM) 00:29:53.500 --> 00:29:59.900 hmm NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:30:05.600 --> 00:30:18.150 be my representative and through that you get kind of a service representation and protection NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:30:18.150 --> 00:30:29.900 and there's also there's no coincidence that the mafia entered very strongly into the 00:30:29.900 --> 00:30:38.500 unions in eastern United States during the 60s 70s and 80s yeah definitely another example of a 00:30:38.500 --> 00:30:45.400 potentially beneficial form of dependence constructed desirable form of dependence. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 65% (MEDIUM) 00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:48.200 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:30:54.800 --> 00:30:57.150 exactly NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:30:57.150 --> 00:31:04.600 exactly and so it goes to show that so what you're saying is that when you have a spouse who earns 00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:13.100 money then you depend on that spouse or even if you also make a salary you won't be able to live 00:31:13.100 --> 00:31:22.200 from that salary alone there's a dependency relation and this is obviously beneficial potentially 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:27.500 beneficial relationship it's socially beneficial NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:32.900 the desirable form of dependents did not depend on anyone NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 64% (MEDIUM) 00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:35.800 What would that look like? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:31:38.800 --> 00:31:43.900 just a completely autonomous human being NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 63% (MEDIUM) 00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:46.500 what will happen NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (HØY) 00:31:46.800 --> 00:31:49.800 They die, no? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:32:03.600 --> 00:32:06.100 yes NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (HØY) 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:13.100 that's a very good glad you mentioned that the basic income grant which is also what for Ferguson's 00:32:13.100 --> 00:32:21.100 right in moving towards is another example of what he would call a desirable form of dependence even 00:32:21.100 --> 00:32:30.000 hierarchical one because in this setting of 40% de facto unemployment in South Africa the debate 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.900 about whether we should just give people money these two million people could have died without 00:32:34.900 --> 00:32:36.800 causing a ripple on the Johannesburg stock report NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:43.600 James this guy who comes up to me and says boss I'll do anything what can I can I cut your lawn cook 00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:51.450 your meal take your kids to school these people will never be incorporated into the formal wage 00:32:51.450 --> 00:33:01.100 labor system so what do we do with them? they will never because we cannot create that many 00:33:01.100 --> 00:33:06.650 jobs so in that context the debate about basic income grants the NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:33:06.650 --> 00:33:14.900 state providing citizens salary regardless of who you are how much you earn what your gender where 00:33:14.900 --> 00:33:23.300 you live this debate has become very urgent in southern Africa and has indeed become NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:33:23.300 --> 00:33:31.500 come to the forum of political discussions across the world for that reason and that would of course 00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:38.800 be a form of dependence on the state NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:33:38.800 --> 00:33:47.100 but the question is not so much to end to kind of to have this in to go with this illusion that you 00:33:47.100 --> 00:33:54.900 could end dependence is just for Ferguson what are the desirable forms of dependence that we can 00:33:54.900 --> 00:34:03.200 create and what are the less desirable forms of dependence that we should avoid because freedom 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:08.900 is not for Ferguson necessarily let's just say Ferguson is kind of working here with the concept of 00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:09.449 dependence NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:34:09.449 --> 00:34:15.500 He's trying to make that Define that differently to give that different meaning but behind that 00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:19.000 discussion is also different concept of freedom NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:34:19.699 --> 00:34:29.199 what does it mean to be free? to be dependent on Health Care provision from the state to be dependent 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:39.900 on someone who loves you who who brings food to the table alongside you to be 00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:49.100 dependent on friends to be the recipient of a common pool of NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:34:49.100 --> 00:34:53.350 resources provided by a government NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:34:53.350 --> 00:34:56.350 these things can mean freedom NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (HØY) 00:34:56.350 --> 00:35:07.000 I'm dependent on Ullevål Sykehus the hospital being free if I fall off my bike break 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:08.800 my nose NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (HØY) 00:35:09.600 --> 00:35:17.600 I'll be in big trouble if these people at Ullevål Sykehus do not work if you start 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:19.300 charging me lots of money NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:35:19.300 --> 00:35:28.600 so that there is a dependence there, but it is one that liberates me. It makes me ride my bike 00:35:28.600 --> 00:35:38.400 with a bit more confidence actually maybe I shouldn't but it makes me safe that if something happens 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:44.000 when something happens knock on wood to me they will stitch me up NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.900 so dependency can be freedom NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:35:48.200 --> 00:35:57.600 that's some of the lessons in this course that you can as I say we go through all 00:35:57.600 --> 00:36:03.750 of us to Eilert Sundts hus we take the elevator up all the way to the 12th floor where the economists are 00:36:03.750 --> 00:36:09.100 we open the window and we scream something out over the university one of the things that we could 00:36:09.100 --> 00:36:16.800 scream that would always be true is that dependency can mean Freedom you dependency relations NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:22.399 to be dependent on something or someone can be can mean to be free NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:36:22.399 --> 00:36:29.300 and this of course goes all the way back to the start of the course 00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:37.000 with the text by Milton Friedman right. What is freedom? freedom is just another word what are 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:42.700 the what are the concept of Freedom that is lurking in this text in Ferguson vis a vis or 00:36:42.700 --> 00:36:50.400 versus the concept of Freedom that you find in Milton Friedman and Rose Friedman text on the from 00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:52.450 their book free to choose? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (HØY) 00:36:52.450 --> 00:36:58.600 interesting contrast between this at the very end of the course and text at the very beginning of 00:36:58.600 --> 00:37:04.200 the course something to think about and work on for your exams. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:37:04.900 --> 00:37:10.000 let's talk about that a little bit for the last 10 minutes yeah NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:37:10.200 --> 00:37:12.800 yeah please NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:38:35.200 --> 00:38:44.900 exactly so the claim that you know someone stepping onto stage and saying I'm 00:38:44.900 --> 00:38:52.100 independent I'm an independent man is something that you can kind of look a little bit odd at and 00:38:52.100 --> 00:38:54.200 say what is going on here NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:38:54.200 --> 00:38:56.050 because NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (HØY) 00:38:56.050 --> 00:39:04.800 In that kind of assertion people are making invisible or hiding or not 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:12.550 talking about all these dependency relations that made up made them be able to stand on that stage 00:39:12.550 --> 00:39:14.899 And claim independence NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:39:14.899 --> 00:39:25.400 and why how why are some people allowed to and become more credible when they claim independence 00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:27.000 in that way? NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (HØY) 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:36.000 you know self the idea of the self-made man and Norwegian prime minister right now is called Jonas Gahr Støre 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.800 I once wrote a book about him and he NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:39:40.700 --> 00:39:50.700 has said this I'm a self-made political man because he coming from a rich family with a kind of 00:39:50.700 --> 00:39:58.000 conservative political leaning chose the left he chose the Labour party he chose social democracy 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:07.500 which is true but in this statement than this presentation of himself as a self-made man he's 00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:11.350 also making invisible all these dependency relations t hat NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:40:11.350 --> 00:40:19.700 made it possible from for him to enter into politics and to become an influential person because his 00:40:19.700 --> 00:40:31.700 grandfather was an influential shipping person and he grew up in a neighbourhood of Oslo where 00:40:31.700 --> 00:40:40.200 there was a certain social grammar in a certain kind of entitlement that seeped into your way of 00:40:40.200 --> 00:40:41.200 being that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:40:41.200 --> 00:40:47.400 made him really successful he learned French he knew the right people that got him he was a 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:53.300 friend with another person that went to the same school who by the way was 00:40:53.300 --> 00:40:59.100 the son of the Labour party leader at that time her name was Gro Harem Brundtland and the son's 00:40:59.100 --> 00:41:05.000 name was Knut Brundtland some they become best friends he gets to know Gro Harlem Brundtland through 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:11.300 him and it takes education all this is thanks to NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:41:11.300 --> 00:41:19.800 dependency relations that condition him in that empower him to one day come out into the 00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:26.100 public and say hey I'm just me I'm making my own decisions I'm an individual I'm self-made but 00:41:26.100 --> 00:41:34.900 actually by claiming that he is drawing up the curtain for us not to see all these relations of 00:41:34.900 --> 00:41:37.750 dependence that allows him to do that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 69% (MEDIUM) 00:41:37.750 --> 00:41:40.900 That was just another example. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:53.000 I often say you know it's also something that you that we do ourselves like I worked really 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:59.200 hard to get here you know. I can also tell that story I worked really hard to get where I am right 00:41:59.200 --> 00:42:04.900 now thanks to me my own effort, but let's try and be a bit more courageous and say that there's a 00:42:04.900 --> 00:42:11.000 whole lot of luck the whole there's a whole lot of structuring there's a whole lot of stuff you get 00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:11.100 from NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 75% (MEDIUM) 00:42:11.100 --> 00:42:18.550 your parents and your name your neighbourhood and your own surroundings you're the the debt 00:42:18.550 --> 00:42:27.300 the savings that that your mother gives you that allow you to buy a house now in your age and 00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:33.500 say hey I'm an independent person I bought my own apartment at Grünerløkka 00:42:33.500 --> 00:42:34.649 Where actually NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (HØY) 00:42:34.649 --> 00:42:41.250 there's a dependency relation behind that too with your parents and with your parents relation to 00:42:41.250 --> 00:42:48.050 Capital and their generations of stuff that they inherited NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:42:48.050 --> 00:42:53.200 okay I think you get the point. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:42:55.200 --> 00:43:01.900 We have interpreted the world the point however is to change it, that was Marx and the point would 00:43:01.900 --> 00:43:09.300 be for you to change it but before we do that we have an exam and there was a there are a few 00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:17.200 questions to me about whether you should write in English or what it what it will be about and so on 00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:23.200 we will be about is something I haven't really decided yet. Me and George's will talk and think about 00:43:23.200 --> 00:43:25.650 things but I think it's important NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:43:25.650 --> 00:43:30.900 for me to let you know that we're not going to give you a questions that are going that are kind of 00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:38.100 shocked they're going to shock you okay I don't want to kind of joke to you I want to give you three 00:43:38.100 --> 00:43:44.400 questions you pick one and then the within these three there should be something that you feel 00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:54.800 that is your home turf okay. So don't be worried we'll kind of lay out three playgrounds and an 00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:55.550 invite you to NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:43:55.550 --> 00:44:02.300 go into one of them and I hope you'll be comfortable in at least one of these three. English or 00:44:02.300 --> 00:44:04.800 Norwegian it's up to you NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 69% (MEDIUM) 00:44:05.900 --> 00:44:13.300 right maybe in what you're comfortable with but also we're not going to punish you for writing in 00:44:13.300 --> 00:44:19.600 English and not performing like William Shakespeare so if you want to write in English do that if 00:44:19.600 --> 00:44:25.400 you want to write a Norwegian do that I'm not going to suggest you choose either one. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:44:27.100 --> 00:44:37.600 The key now from this point on in is to to read Seth Holmes book we're 00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:43.800 going to talk about that last lecture it's not going to be a substitute for reading that book my 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:53.700 lecture so do read it come to the Thursday thing and we'll have a whole kind of participatory last 00:44:53.700 --> 00:44:57.850 lecture where we talk about everything that's difficult and all your questions NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:44:57.850 --> 00:45:08.000 so thank you see you soon. In addition to 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:19.500 the Thursday thing there's what I think will be really nice when Saturday at 12 George's and I will 00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:26.950 likely be there too we invite you to come with us to the labor Museum okay NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:45:26.950 --> 00:45:29.899 I don't even know where it is NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:45:29.899 --> 00:45:35.300 it's in Sagene and we'll get a guided tour and we'll see how some of these things that were 00:45:35.300 --> 00:45:41.400 talking about now have been contested and fought about in Norway so will be put some information on 00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:45.500 canvas Saturday at 12 I hope you'll be there NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 52% (MEDIUM) 00:47:16.300 --> 00:47:18.850 NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 48% (MEDIUM) 00:47:18.850 --> 00:47:38.000