WEBVTT Kind: captions; language: en-us NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:00:01.299 --> 00:00:08.300 So welcome to the third week of this series, where we again is going to look at an absolute classic 00:00:08.300 --> 00:00:16.400 In environmental anthropology and this is the critique of conservation, there has been a long debate 00:00:16.400 --> 00:00:23.400 between anthropologists and conservationists where anthropologists have claimed that conservation 00:00:23.400 --> 00:00:29.900 interest do not pay a sufficiently attention to people when they NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:00:29.900 --> 00:00:38.000 they set out to save nature. That debate has moved quite a lot in recent years again exemplified 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:44.500 by some of the writings of Anna Tsing and colleagues but today we're going to look at some of the 00:00:44.500 --> 00:00:51.300 more classic critiques of conservation at least in the first article by Brosius and then a slightly 00:00:51.300 --> 00:00:59.950 different take on that with the article by Li and then I'm also including a newer NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:00:59.950 --> 00:01:08.500 article by myself just to show you some of the more contemporary thinking about these issues, but first to 00:01:08.500 --> 00:01:11.600 Brosius and Li then. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:24.800 Brosius argues that anthropology and anthropological studies of environmental organisations are missing an 00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:33.600 important aspect which he calls how these organizations are not just voluntary NGOs outside the 00:01:33.600 --> 00:01:40.900 state but they are pretty much part of what Foucault would call an apparatus of control and 00:01:40.900 --> 00:01:43.150 Surveillance. Now this is NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:01:43.150 --> 00:01:51.600 pretty much the standard critique of environmental NGOs and development NGOs at the time when 00:01:51.600 --> 00:02:00.000 Brosius is writing, we touched on that a bit last week I mentioned this framework to you, you 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:06.700 don't necessarily need to go into that literature to understand what he's saying here but just let 00:02:06.700 --> 00:02:12.850 me recap briefly. He builds on a realist NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:02:12.850 --> 00:02:20.250 seminal study by someone called James Ferguson who wrote a book in 1990 I think it was 00:02:20.250 --> 00:02:28.400 called the anti politics machine, where he argues that development interventions do much more than 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:35.300 just fail which they he says obviously do because we are not getting rid of poverty they do 00:02:35.300 --> 00:02:42.649 something else they make poverty manageable by removing politics from it NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:02:42.649 --> 00:02:49.850 the kind of Foucauldian argument that is made here is that in failing to solve development issues 00:02:49.850 --> 00:02:56.200 development institutions at the same time do something else they make poverty 00:02:56.200 --> 00:03:02.899 manageable. Brosius do something really similar here, he argues that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:03:02.899 --> 00:03:11.100 because of the way that discourses of environmentalism work it's a move away from moral and 00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:17.600 politics to technical solutions and it gives a really good empirical example of that which is 00:03:17.600 --> 00:03:20.400 important that you try to follow. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:03:21.600 --> 00:03:29.400 this happens he says is not that surprising because since the Brundtland commission in the late 1980s 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:38.700 development and environmental concerns have been merged to a large extent, this then creates in a very Foucauldian 00:03:38.700 --> 00:03:44.900 Way then an apparatus for producing knowledge about environments about the third world and 00:03:44.900 --> 00:03:50.850 so on, and this apparatus then privilege certain actors NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:03:50.850 --> 00:03:55.700 somebody is able to speak or the people are not able to speak we will touch a bit on that in the 00:03:55.700 --> 00:04:02.500 next article by Li as well and it frames what is possible to do more concretely in this case we will 00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:12.900 see it takes or frames a moral political issue as a technical one of therefore also displaces what 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:20.649 is possible to do we do this kind of issue he tries to argue. He uses a really famous example from NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:04:20.649 --> 00:04:30.600 environmentalism to argue this and this is a case that those of us that were around in the 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:39.600 1980s really remember the case of forestry of huge cutting down the forest and indigenous 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:49.300 rainforest in Borneo and elsewhere so what happened here is that a situation where you have a 00:04:49.300 --> 00:04:51.049 what used to be a NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:04:51.049 --> 00:04:58.700 hunter-gathering nomadic people that had been for years settled or try to settled and 00:04:58.700 --> 00:05:08.600 ordered by state into settlements so that it was only about 5% that remained nomadic. These people 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:14.300 were not recognized as indigenous people in any meaningful way by the government by the Malaysian 00:05:14.300 --> 00:05:21.250 government they were more seen as primitives that needed help and need to be developed into more modern NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:05:21.250 --> 00:05:30.000 members of state now this area where they were living had a huge amount of hardwood, they were one of the main 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:37.800 suppliers of tropical hardwoods from the 1980s onwards. The deforestation in the area 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:46.950 was really quite severe and of course for the 5% of the nomadic dependent that still remained, 00:05:46.950 --> 00:05:50.850 this had extremely grave consequences when their livelihoods were NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:05:50.850 --> 00:06:01.800 basically disappearing. In 1987 this really hit international media when the east of Panem the 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:10.500 nomadic part of the Panem erected roadblocks they had created statements translated into English and 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:18.600 Japanese and the press coverage of this was really massive, when we were presented with 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:21.050 indigenous people in indigenous NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:06:21.050 --> 00:06:27.950 Attires standing up creating roadblocks to huge machine to capitalist exploitation and deforestation 00:06:27.950 --> 00:06:35.200 and these images traveled around the world really important in mobilising a mass campaign against 00:06:35.200 --> 00:06:38.200 a different station in Malaysia. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:44.800 It really really focused how a little group of people were able to stand up to big 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:53.800 international interest and the state, so the kind of image that they had a primitive indigenous 00:06:53.800 --> 00:07:01.400 people living in harmony with nature that was then being destroyed by capital interest and a ruthless 00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:07.650 state, also there was a lot of people who sort of signed up for that campaign NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 78% (HØY) 00:07:07.650 --> 00:07:16.700 it was made famous by a Swiss environmental activist called Bruno Manser who had lived with 00:07:16.700 --> 00:07:24.000 Them for a long time and also help them to orchestrate an international campaign to help them but 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:31.200 also Malaysian NGOs bands such as the Grateful Dead and Prince Charles really got behind the 00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:37.650 campaign and it was framed as being extremely urgent. We NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:07:37.650 --> 00:07:45.000 Were told that these forest operations kept on going for 24 hours a day and large football fields were 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:50.700 disappearing like every hour or so we really needed to do something now to stop this massive 00:07:50.700 --> 00:08:03.700 destruction of tropical forests. Wo what I have here then is a typical clash in a sense, the Malaysian 00:08:03.700 --> 00:08:07.650 response to this the official response from the government NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:08:07.650 --> 00:08:14.500 was quite aggressive, they were saying that who are you to tell us what to do you're 00:08:14.500 --> 00:08:20.100 a Primitive backward people that we are trying to help in the first place you do 00:08:20.100 --> 00:08:26.300 not have any moral rights to tell us what to do when you have a long history of imperialism and you 00:08:26.300 --> 00:08:32.500 have forgotten what you have done to your own native people and then sort of branded this as a way 00:08:32.500 --> 00:08:37.600 of new colonialism and eco-imperialism. On the other side was an NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:44.400 equally strong moral argument the picture we were presented with as I said was about destruction 00:08:44.400 --> 00:08:52.600 destroying indigenous societies and destroying pristine nature so the important point here 00:08:52.600 --> 00:09:00.700 is that both sides for now argued in moral and political terms this was a moral issue and it was 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:06.900 all to do about the politics of either developing an backward nation and making it into a modern 00:09:06.900 --> 00:09:07.500 first NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (HØY) 00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:16.450 Nation that the Malaysian said or about greedy capitalist and state officials destroying our common 00:09:16.450 --> 00:09:23.600 Heritage in an indigenous forest so this was a moral and political battle more than anything 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:24.750 else. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:09:24.750 --> 00:09:33.600 The first response were also quite crude when for instance when a Malaysian government official were 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:39.200 confronted with the view that deforestation would change the climate so that you would have less 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:45.250 rain he said that well this is some brilliant thing because it means that the rain will not interrupt my golf 00:09:45.250 --> 00:09:52.000 and they also try to sort of crude critiques which like saying that well this is really 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.250 all sponsored by the NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:09:54.250 --> 00:10:01.900 northern forestry operations who field the competition from us so that was sort of a response that 00:10:01.900 --> 00:10:09.400 didn't work well because it was so crude and banal in a sense but then something interesting happens 00:10:09.400 --> 00:10:17.100 from the 1990s onwards. The shift then in argument was not about what the Malaysian government was 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:22.900 doing with the people and the forest but more about the links between the North and 00:10:22.900 --> 00:10:24.050 the South NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:10:24.050 --> 00:10:34.100 so they began to present argumentations like well why should be have a sustainable 00:10:34.100 --> 00:10:39.500 logging of tropical timber When the Northern countries do not have a sustainable use of their 00:10:39.500 --> 00:10:40.850 resources NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:10:40.850 --> 00:10:49.350 number one also that well the main problem here is that it's people in the north who buy this 00:10:49.350 --> 00:10:56.100 hardwood so it's not a consumption it's you people who complain that is part of the problem, and then of 00:10:56.100 --> 00:11:04.400 course into the wider discourses about north-south relations how the north had underdeveloped the 00:11:04.400 --> 00:11:10.100 South and who are you to tell us not to make an industrial Development now that we are finally 00:11:10.100 --> 00:11:11.050 beginning to NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:11:11.050 --> 00:11:18.650 catch up with with you, so that shifted the argument from just 00:11:18.650 --> 00:11:28.800 internal to the Malaysian side to the relationship between the North and the South, and 00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:35.200 it was not only the Malaysian government that did this but also Malaysian NGOs which made it really 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:41.150 hard for the northern NGOs to ignore that argument and part of which they were in agreement NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:11:41.150 --> 00:11:47.900 with anyway when they have been going on about consumerism as being part of an environmental problem 00:11:47.900 --> 00:11:52.600 themselves so this was an argument that could not be ignored. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:11:52.600 --> 00:12:04.500 There was a shift then in campaigning against the logging, activists then shifted to consumption 00:12:04.500 --> 00:12:10.800 in the north and advocated a full ban on all hardwoods and I remember this growing up that you should 00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:16.400 not really have teak in your house that was a bad thing because this most came mostly came from 00:12:16.400 --> 00:12:21.849 unsustainable forces but the debate NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 85% (HØY) 00:12:21.849 --> 00:12:29.700 was then should this really be completely banned and this is crucial or can we get a system in 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:39.800 place that ensures that we only have sustainable use of hardwoods, so the importers and the 00:12:39.800 --> 00:12:48.100 sellers of hardwood from the south said that fine we will agree to a ban or stop importing this if 00:12:48.100 --> 00:12:51.950 you help us get a system in place where we can certify that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:12:51.950 --> 00:13:03.200 this product is then sustainably sourced, so the NGO found themselves eventually caught up or being 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:10.500 becoming part of a system of certification of responsible use of hardwood NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:19.500 so this came about both as a result of the Malaysian government's response 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:27.050 how they shifted the relationship to North-south and how they shifted their focus to western consumerism 00:13:27.050 --> 00:13:33.599 and that the northern NGOs because of that had to re-assess the situation. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:13:33.599 --> 00:13:40.100 And then something happens as he points out, the Malaysian then were able to say that 00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:47.400 well we have actually a long history of sustainable forest management and they could point to 00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:53.450 documents talking about sustainable forest management from the 1970s onwards but what is interesting 00:13:53.450 --> 00:14:02.950 Brosius points out is that nobody defined what sustainable meant in this setting NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (HØY) 00:14:02.950 --> 00:14:09.150 so when the Malaysian government talked about sustainable forest management in the 70s that meant 00:14:09.150 --> 00:14:17.300 economically sustainable management i.e. only use resources to such an extent that we have an 00:14:17.300 --> 00:14:22.300 economic gain on in the future, there was no mention of indigenous people and looking after the 00:14:22.300 --> 00:14:28.800 ecosystem but by just keeping that word you were able to sort of say that this is something we have 00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:30.900 done for a long time. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:42.700 This shift then Brosius points out came about not by a coincidence but when the Malaysian realized 00:14:42.700 --> 00:14:50.000 that they needed to redefine the debate they used two of the most famous public relations 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:56.100 firms at the time, which then stress the science along sustainability 00:14:56.100 --> 00:15:02.599 and they helped set up a whole NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:15:02.599 --> 00:15:09.300 research and conference apparatus as he calls it to produce this new kind of knowledge about how do 00:15:09.300 --> 00:15:18.800 we solve how do we make sure that timber is now produced sustainably in this new meaning this was 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:27.100 just not rhetoric Brosius points out but it created a new kind of institution, institutions where 00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:30.099 the solution moved from being NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:15:30.099 --> 00:15:37.800 political and moral to being technical, technical in a sense of how do we set up these kind of 00:15:37.800 --> 00:15:39.500 apparatus NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 86% (HØY) 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:49.600 A set up a way of giving a certificate to certain producers who say that this has been 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:55.700 sustainably produced and the forest Stewardship Council which some of you might have heard of came 00:15:55.700 --> 00:16:06.600 out of this, so the NGOs found themselves on a completely different arena rather than being able to 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.150 say that we need to stop this NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 87% (HØY) 00:16:09.150 --> 00:16:16.600 terrible destruction of indigenous societies and indigenous forests and we need to mobilise now, they 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:25.400 Found themselves as conveners of conferences of new organisations that put in control mechanisms on 00:16:25.400 --> 00:16:27.700 sustainable use of forest NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:16:27.800 --> 00:16:38.250 and this of course created a shift from the focus on politics to a focus on science and management. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:16:38.250 --> 00:16:47.500 so rather than mobilizing morally against against the destruction of forest one would now meant 00:16:47.500 --> 00:16:55.100 to set in to be part of a larger more technical apparatus right, and this Brosius and many others 00:16:55.100 --> 00:17:01.600 have happened with environmental management more generally and it's a huge 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:08.000 debate in environmental circles whether this is a good thing or not, what has happened since this 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:08.400 time NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:17.300 is there's been a concentration of power in a few some call it the big five environmental 00:17:17.300 --> 00:17:26.700 organisations such as the WWF for instance who are massive multi-million corporations who work 00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:34.500 closely with what earlier environmentalist would have seen as enemies like Shell and so on 00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:38.050 In order they argue to work from the inside and try to NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:17:38.050 --> 00:17:47.000 change things there, and you have had initiatives such as PES payment for ecosystem services which is 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:55.600 exactly the same thing right it's taking what Ingold and others would call an over environment and 00:17:55.600 --> 00:18:03.200 turning it into a commodity and putting a price to it so that it can be managed within a capital 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:08.000 system and as I said it's a lot with discussion within environmental organizations whether this is 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:08.300 good NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (HØY) 00:18:08.300 --> 00:18:14.600 or not read the Norwegian initiative to save the rainforest by putting a price on it as well and 00:18:14.600 --> 00:18:23.200 paying people or governments not to cut down trees is a similar initiative. You can debate and talk 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:30.800 and discuss whether this is a good thing or not but Brosius point which links back to the 00:18:30.800 --> 00:18:38.199 Foucauldian argument is that the debate has shifted we started out with moral about NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:18:38.199 --> 00:18:46.000 and politics about greedy capitalists about the bad government destroying its own force and its 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:54.300 Own people to more instrumental discussions about what is happening or how to best solve 00:18:54.300 --> 00:19:00.500 technically these kind of issues so the whole debate has shifted, and whether that is a good thing or a 00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:07.700 bad thing is debatable. Brosius and other people with him think that this takes the politics out 00:19:07.700 --> 00:19:08.350 of the NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:19:08.350 --> 00:19:16.200 equation and that since this is a deeply fundamentally deeply a moral and political issue this is a 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:17.550 huge problem. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:19:17.550 --> 00:19:29.100 Li has a similar argument but with a different twist she really discusses when you remember from 00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:35.000 from Brosius how the Panem was seen as backward people who needed to be saved by the 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:40.400 Malaysian government and as indigenous people and that shifted a bit she moves into that 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:48.350 process a bit more by talking about rural people in NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 71% (MEDIUM) 00:19:48.350 --> 00:19:59.400 Suhato a quite homogeneous set of people actually had different opportunities for 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:09.800 invoking different strategies such as being labeled tribal in Indonesia and the Suharto regime the 00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:16.400 position was similar pretty similar to what we saw in Malaysia there were no indigenous people in 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:18.450 Indonesia was official NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:20:18.450 --> 00:20:24.700 position rather it was a lot of poor people or traditional people living in the countryside which 00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:30.700 needed help and be helped to be settled and to be modernized but they were not recognized as 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:39.000 indigenous people in the sense that Northern or Western NGOs for example did in Malaysia NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 91% (HØY) 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:48.700 so this creates a situation Li argues when after Suharto when this politics is opening up who are 00:20:48.700 --> 00:20:58.000 able to sort of claim to be an indigenous people and she has a long theoretical argument there 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:05.400 about using Stuart Hall who's a critical Marxist to discuss that you don't need to go into 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.650 all the details there the important thing is that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:21:08.650 --> 00:21:15.900 He and she is trying to strike a balance and the balance is between saying that this is predetermined 00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:22.400 by who the people are either you are a tribal group or you are not or you are a poor peasant or 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:30.600 you're not and the opposite argument perhaps following from Fredrik Barth and this more actor oriented 00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:37.700 theories of ethnicity where there's a lot more choice when you can choose to present yourself as 00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:38.850 tribal or you can choose NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:21:38.850 --> 00:21:48.600 To present yourself as a peasantry for instance how he is arguing a bit of both 00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:56.650 you have room for maneuver as she call it within structures but these structures are not equal to all 00:21:56.650 --> 00:22:01.100 and that is a point she wants to make it in this article. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:22:02.300 --> 00:22:11.900 the state programs had two different Suharto which sort of reflected something that looked 00:22:11.900 --> 00:22:20.600 like indigenous identities more than the other, first one called Masyarakat Terasing 00:22:20.600 --> 00:22:27.000 was sort of programs directed at what they saw as not indigenous people but primitive 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:31.900 Nomadic cultural people and these are people that needed help to NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:22:31.900 --> 00:22:38.100 Be settled and be part of the Modern Nation so that was sort of seen as a problem that they 00:22:38.100 --> 00:22:48.000 lacked a world religion that they lacked some kind of civilizing components. 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:56.400 The other kind of program was what they called Orang Kampong Village People where much more 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:01.850 straightforward development programs we used to try to help them and ethnicity and NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:23:01.850 --> 00:23:08.700 difference didn't really play a role in this so the official state programs had these two kind of 00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:18.300 categories but quite interestingly as Li is saying most people in the countryside could be either, as 00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:24.100 as long as you are outside Java so it's not really a characteristic of the people themselves whether 00:23:24.100 --> 00:23:31.500 they should belong in either of these two categories. Then comes the NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:38.900 NGOs with a third category of the indigenous people at the time right, which is what we 00:23:38.900 --> 00:23:48.200 recognize as as modern environmentalism where indigenous people are seen as being tied to the place 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:56.200 they live have a long intimate history with that place to have to live in a sustainable way and to 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:01.300 have a culture that is based on the wisdom of their environment NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 84% (HØY) 00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:09.700 now she argues that with these three different categories and the two different programs of the 00:24:09.700 --> 00:24:19.000 Indonesian State and the NGOs rural people had the opportunity to place themselves in 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:25.900 relation to this but not as they self wished they were constrained by their history and by the 00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:30.699 situation and also by the choice to a certain degree. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:24:30.699 --> 00:24:38.700 Interestingly she shows for the two cases she's looking at it is a people who were more directly in 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:48.500 A world with the Dutch colonialists you had to therefore come up with an idea of own traditional and 00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:56.900 identity which therefore place them in a position to sort of play the indigenous card sort of put 00:24:56.900 --> 00:25:00.650 more effectively than other people the Dutch colonialists had NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 73% (MEDIUM) 00:25:00.650 --> 00:25:07.600 also codified some people and they recorded that traditional culture in a certain way much like a 00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:16.400 British colonialists did as well, so they had a much stronger sense of their own identity because of 00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:19.150 their engagement with an outsider. NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:25:19.150 --> 00:25:27.100 The first groups she discusses is Lajue, they were mountain people with 00:25:27.100 --> 00:25:33.900 but hadn't really been part of much interest from the modern state or from the colonialist 00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:42.800 and therefore they did not really have a collective identity. They tend to be ruled 00:25:42.800 --> 00:25:48.300 indirectly as well the state related to The Nobles who lived down by the coast NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 82% (HØY) 00:25:48.300 --> 00:25:57.000 and these Nobles again found important people in the inlands which they sort of pointed out as 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:05.800 Their deputies but it was not a celebration of indigenousness either from the aristocracy or from 00:26:05.800 --> 00:26:13.300 the people rather the aristocrats were ashamed about their more primitive background of their of the 00:26:13.300 --> 00:26:16.100 four barriers in the mountains NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 83% (HØY) 00:26:16.100 --> 00:26:24.450 so the way they related to the state was within it, they wanted more development help more resources 00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:30.100 resources and also a lot of conflict by all means but it was within the frame 00:26:30.100 --> 00:26:37.400 of State development why do we not get more resources more buildings more schools Etc and the sort 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:45.750 of quite cynical about the state and corruption but they did not confront the state NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 79% (HØY) 00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:55.200 as an ethnic identity rather they saw himself as being ignored by the state because of their status 00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:04.050 the Lindu is a completely different case again they reached International recognition through a 00:27:04.050 --> 00:27:12.800 development project and this was the opposition to a dam project, they were in the at least the 00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:16.400 English-speaking press portrayed as a Sulawesi tribe NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 77% (HØY) 00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:25.300 and they could show and argue and identify a tribal identity they had were able to present themselves 00:27:25.300 --> 00:27:33.600 as having a traditional economic political logical knowledge a unique culture that needed to be 00:27:33.600 --> 00:27:41.400 be protected they had tribal elders and so forth and their livelihood and culture was 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.850 strongly seen as being linked to a place so if this NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 80% (HØY) 00:27:45.850 --> 00:27:53.300 a place were destroyed by a dam they would disappear as a culture and this was a strong argument 00:27:53.300 --> 00:27:58.300 against the Indonesian State who wanted to relocate them to another area which you could have done 00:27:58.300 --> 00:28:05.200 with a peasantry without the same kind of problem. They had a very different history which explains 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:13.400 why they were able to make this point, they had been settled by the Dutch quite early and therefore 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:15.850 had to relate to outsiders NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:28:15.850 --> 00:28:24.500 from an early stage, they had had a struggle with resources from the Dutch and later the 00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:31.400 State and therefore also had a strong local leadership who lived among them unlike the 00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:39.800 other group so the conditions were already there for articulating an Indigenous identity and then 00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:46.500 this was actually helped by the work of NGOs who then helped them NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 81% (HØY) 00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:56.100 formulate the claim as a claim based on their indigenous identity towards the 00:28:56.100 --> 00:29:04.100 state, so she's not saying that this had to happen in that case but it had a different set of 00:29:04.100 --> 00:29:11.700 opportunities compared to the first group they had a possible claim to a traditional land to a 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:15.800 traditional culture to a place to our knowledge to our history NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:29:15.800 --> 00:29:27.400 that ordinary villagers could not claim in the same sense. It also helps that it was easier for 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:35.100 The Lindu to access outsiders because of this kind of history right and Li herself 00:29:35.100 --> 00:29:40.900 experience this quite clearly she has worked with the first group of people for a long long long 00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:45.850 time and really just visited this area the Lindu NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:29:45.850 --> 00:29:53.400 as a comparative case and was then flown into the area presented with material that describe 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:59.800 them as an indigenous people their fight so it was almost a packaged case that really fit 00:29:59.800 --> 00:30:11.200 what she calls the tribal shot in this case so what she is 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.200 really trying to argue here is that NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 74% (MEDIUM) 00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:24.200 identities like these are not given, they are presented as opportunities that are more or less easy 00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:31.200 to use by the different different groups, it was a lot easier for this second group to claim an 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:39.200 identity as indigenous than the first and likewise if you look at the case of Malaysia that 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:45.250 Brosius talked about there's again you had a very similar starting point NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 89% (HØY) 00:30:45.250 --> 00:30:51.900 in indigenous people being destroyed by capital and greedy government which then the 00:30:51.900 --> 00:31:03.300 government managed to shift the argument to to being about technical solutions and control 00:31:03.300 --> 00:31:10.900 about environmentalism right. So in their way the both talk about environmental organizations Brosius 00:31:10.900 --> 00:31:15.449 making the point that there's been an unfortunate shift NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 90% (HØY) 00:31:15.449 --> 00:31:25.300 in a move from politics to more Technical Solutions which he believes is also destroying what the 00:31:25.300 --> 00:31:33.000 environmental organization are trying to do, and in the Li case that an idea of 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:38.800 indigenous people being destroyed by development actually fix some groups of people better than 00:31:38.800 --> 00:31:45.449 Other and it's not that the first group is not as deserving and in as much need of help as NOTE Treffsikkerhet: 88% (HØY) 00:31:45.449 --> 00:31:53.400 The latter but it's that articulation as she calls it between Western NGOs ideas and the situation on the 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:58.300 ground that made the one case work and the other not work.